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My first thought after reading this is to avoid the whole issue by never going to a doctor again unless I'm in a car accident or break my leg. Disgusting sucking up to a person abusing his or her power.

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It really varies doctor to doctor. Goal of this was to provide the advice that would help in the difficult situations.

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I know, but in my experience they are all difficult situations.

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But I really don't want to play Russian roulette with "doctors." I wouldn't mind to be seen by you! :)

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Gosh, millions of us now feel the same way! We are terrified to interact with a medical system that has judged us harshly for not taking an experimental injection that does not even work.

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That’s my immediate thought, too. Isn’t it gross that one should require a doctorate in Comm Studies to get a doctor to listen to them? Even then, it often doesn’t help...both my husband--who, in fact, has a PhD in that very field--and I have been hurt FAR more than helped by doctors and their “medicine”.

I don’t mean to disparage all doctors, and I appreciate what a nightmare I am for my own doctor: I refuse nearly every test or treatment, and I only go to get my ADHD meds, which have admittedly been a godsend for me.

And I do immensely appreciate the insight from AMWD.

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Its sad because I don't think any of the stuff I am mentioning is that complicated, it just is never taught in schools so it appears to be fairly advanced when in reality it's something that should be learned prior to high school (I for instance had to figure all of this out myself).

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I appreciate all that you wrote. And see several minor but important mistakes I made in communicating with docs in the past. I'm a little too honest and need to put on more of a marketing face. Not fake, but more thought in advance and more deliberate.

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The best way I can think to describe all of this, is that I often will bring up controversial subjects that are outside of other people's comfort zones which they are not inclined to listen to. I do not like putting energy into something that I do not believe has a purpose, so when I bring these topics up it is either because I expect them to be heard or because I am interested to learn how people respond to them. In contrast, throughout my entire life I have seen the normal experience is for people to expand a great deal of effort to bring up a controversial topic and then not be heard. The long and short of it, is that I am fully behind speaking my truth, but I am also strategic and how I presented so that it is likely to be heard; if I do not do that then all I do is burn my energy shouting out a brick wall, which is analogous to the situation I see many trapped in.

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Ah, you, oh Midwestern Doctor, are such a font of practical wisdom. I love this particular paragraph where you explain being strategic and saving energy. I don't think that has come easily to me, but I had to learn it to manage a difficult divorce situation (with the help of a great social worker therapist). I did learn this lesson in being strategic then but am finding it oh so hard to have to use it over and over in my everyday life as a musician in Massachusetts (very blue). It's one thing to have to employ it to a single person to (in my case) save your child and save your own sanity. It's another to have to employ being strategic over and over again. And I can't seem to come to terms, personally, with the fact that I am complying and sometimes even lying in order to live a life going forward.

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The way I've come to terms with all of this is just accepting that life is never fair and you have to do the best you can with what life gives you.

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no one shoild dance around these smug POSs in the first place. they never even try to communicate with you as humans, so all this arse licking will just reinforce their delusion of grandeur and make things even worse: you will still be dissmissed, gaslit and not listened to, but in addition you will feel twice as humiliated afterwards by your failed attempt to lick up to these incompetent, narcissistic robots.

the main reason for their smugness is power imbalance between them and their patients.

they behave this way for the same reason all bullies do: because they can.

so, until they lose their power, don’t even hope to see any change.

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I haven't seen my doctor since March of last year, which she tried to get me to take the vax. It has reached the point where I'm starting to get phone calls and messages from her asking why I'm not coming in for a yearly physical. I've gone to her for decades, but I really just don't want to go there and get the spiel.

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May 20, 2022·edited May 20, 2022Author

The number one thing the doctors listen to is their finances. This is why almost every single sales rep always bring some gifts and food or vacation packages (where is holistic reps do not have the budget for this enhance their products have a much smaller adoption rate). If you want to create positive change in the world, you should tell your doctor that you stop seeing them because their contact with the vaccine made you feel uncomfortable. If doctors start losing their patients for pushing the vaccination, that is the thing that will make them seriously reconsider their position on them.

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Sadly is has to be about the threat of Monetary penalty. But not the law nor sanctity of life....

Doctors are making lawyers look good....

Unsmiley face

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The "pandemic" has been an eye opener.

Because of the "pandemic" I have had the most comprehensive self education on the entire medical field in my life.

I have found some good lawyers.

I am responding to the comment "Doctors are making lawyers look good..."

How do I fine a good doctor?

I have what many consider a good doctor already but she is now in a corporate practice and she "follows the CDC guidelines"

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Yup, the manipulators, the hacks, and the mass murderers (often the same) revealed themselves.

Still, they hold the power as long as people comply...

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Ask your doctor about hacksxxxxxines. If she says to take one, run away screaming fast as you can

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I wonder what corporate will have to say about that. Since almost all doctors are part of a corporate practice these days, won't the whole shebang hinge on how well the entire practice adheres to the national narrative? Even if some patients walk away because of the pushing of non-effective medicines and vaccines, won't the impetus still be to make the licensing boards and the health agencies happy? There will just be more propaganda against those patients who do not cooperate, and eventually, cutting off their access to their money, mortgages, groceries, etc.

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My wife went to a doctor a few years ago and it was the first time I could watch a doctor in a corporate hospital setting, plus it was in California. It was the strangest thing - it was entirely the doctor filling out a computer form, which then printed out: three tests, two drug prescriptions, and a recommended follow-up time.

The doctor seemed completely constrained. Her role was to collect the symptoms and enter them into the computer. No time or effort was spent on what could be the root cause, and her whole demeanor was that based on what was presented, there was no other course of action.

The efficiency was astonishing. We immediately went to the next room for testing, and then to a third room with a long but fast-moving line to get the pills.

I don't see how this doctor could have dealt with anything that breaks with established narrative.

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As much we all like to make fun of California, I don't think that's the issue is specific to California. What you're describing is what I believe is the prelude to AI medicine and why I got out of the corporate healthcare system as quickly as I could.

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Best not to see a "doctor." They only "discover" illnesses you don't have a treat you for them ("high cholesterol" is my favorite fraud, but high blood pressure or "diabetes" is not far behind. And by the way, the facilities steal and sell your DNA, if you have a "blood test" (Most life insurance companies do that, too.) and probably sell your biopsies. It might also not be by accident that they like to perform mastectomy...

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My doctor also fills out a computer form as she is talking to you, but it is not quite as robotic as you describe, which is completely alarming. Wow.

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I wondered the same. But actually think it is still a great idea. TELL the doc you don't like the vax and pharma peddling. The more people who do, the more they will start to listen. And if it sinks in, they'll complain to the corporate people, or move on. Corporate can keep getting fed by pharma, or change. And up the chain. (Yeah, it'll take a while, but we all need to speak up and do our part.) California is losing docs big, big time. They can't do that forever.

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why can’t? they can. they’ll just blame it on some made up reason and the conformist crowd will take it as a given. as it takes everything. also, the deficit of doctors is very helpful when you push for AI medicine for the serfs. the elite will always keep a small bunch of real doctors for themselves. and if something doesn’t affect the elite, they won’t ever see it as a problem.

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Here in CA, yep.

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I did exactly this. Saw a dermatologist a decade ago to remove a benign cancer thing on my arm (looked like a wart, very common). During the exam, I asked basic questions about my skin. I have fair skin with a history of childhood sunburns, red hair, lot of freckles. Doctor answered nicely, took notes.

I got a follow-up bill (beyond the $250 for the exam and removal, which my extreme copay doesn't cover even though I pay $100/paycheck for it) for $350. Why? The billing software searched for key words and billed a $50+/ea fee for all found.

I wrote a scathing letter to the doctor. I got a call a few weeks later from the doctor. She didn't even know the practice was doing that. She said she'd had a number of regular patients vanish, which she eventually found out correlated with the billing practice start.

I don't know if the letter had any influence in the practice, but I went back to check what looked like a bad thing on my arm a few months ago. Talked at length, took notes, squirmed a bit. She asked why. I told her I didn't want to get a $500 surprise bill for key words. She shook her head, apologized, and replied "We got that fixed a few years ago. I am sorry it happened."

I still would like a way to find quality holistic doctors, maybe an online referral system or phone app...

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Actually, I have had the privilege to work with real doctors, who served the poorest of the poor, not expecting anything in return. No, they were not members of a spy organization abroad, either. Just there are very few of them, and they burn out or get fired after a few years...

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I’m in exactly the same predicament Linda here in Australia. But because I let my eye specialist appointment lapse also, where I really do need to get a good check, and my Drs referral had lapsed after a year, I asked like minded people if they knew of ‘good’ Drs. So found one, and I asked receptionist if one had to be jibbed, she said no. So process began, filling out transfer forms etc at the desk. But, I was shocked and stunned when a little frail women came to desk and said she wanted to book in for her 😵‍💫4th plus the flu😵‍💫, but couldn’t get them that day as she was having trouble 😵‍💫walking, but next week would be good. The receptionist said that’s all good. I got out of their very fast. My God, what a mess we’re been put into.. Forgive long story, but I’m totally appalled and my (God forgive me) thoughts of ridding All people responsible for this humane massacre happen very soon. ❤️🙏🌟

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Completely agree with you.

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@Linda I have been feeling the same. But then last month my back was KILLING me. I had to go to a doctor and of course did not want to go. Not to my long-time doc who I no longer trust. Not to the doc's clinic and cohorts. But I had to get help so I went. Quick reminder that there will be times when I must. SO I have decided that the search for a trusted doc must start now. I plan to see him/her much less than I ever saw docs in the past. But I want to trust the one I need, when I REALLY need.

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Most back pain is a musculoskeletal issue, and most doctors do not understand how to address musculoskeletal issues. Typically if you have an acute onset of back pain, it will recover on its own, which creates the whole perception many of the conventional medical practices for dealing with back pain work. I find this whole subject immensely frustrating because I often see people with chronic unresolved back pain that alleviates once the musculoskeletal issue is addressed and individuals with acute back pain you can trace to a musculoskeletal event that like why is immediately recover wants to musculoskeletal issue is addressed. Yeah despite this being clear as day, it is exceedingly rare for me to meet at physicians to understand the musculoskeletal causes of back pain.

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Absolutely agree. For me, a chiropractor works well. Just haven't had one since mine retired. The doc I went to see actually had exactly what I needed, a muscle relaxer to stop the acute spasm so I could sleep and work the next day. He even recommended a local chiro. (For a sec I thought I found a new doc. But then he went into the spiel about the vax and boosters. Sigh.) Now it's on me to correct the musculoskeletal related issues that I know are the root cause.

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Acupuncture and massage can work wonders as can soaking in a hot bath with Epsom Salts. Taking magnesium also helps relax muscles.

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This woman has videos and books that really help understand musculoskeletal issues at their root. Her info has helped resolve my intense back pain that doctors insisted needed 'exploratory surgery' and lots of pharma. https://www.nutritiousmovement.com/blog/

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Looks interesting!

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Forget disgusting, it is life-threatening...

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I so appreciate your methodical navigation of today's iatrogenic hell! Having been raised with Stanford trained doctors and engineers but also a more brilliant mother from the school of Price Pottenger, the intellectual tyranny of allopathic medicine and sidestepping it has been my life's work. My childhood was full of broken dishes and fighting, fracturing my family. I escaped to Alaska and raised four sons who never saw a doctor. So much can be summed up in my favorite joke - " What's the difference between God and a doctor? God doesn't think he's a doctor".

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I love those cats! A related phrase I've often heard is god only saves those who swim to shore.

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Good to have a soulmate! Welcome to the club!

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Time...

First there were emotions...fear of covid...confusion about masks, early treatments, lockdowns...anger at antivaxxers

Then there was covid fatigue...this is a sign that emotions are dissipating, which may be encouraging if we can get people to engage in conversations.

Unfortunately, fatigue brings the danger of relaxation of vigilance--and covid 2.0 is coming. The megalomaniacs who pushed the panic-demic will have learned valuable lessons about crowd psychology and psychological tactics. If we aren't prepared, the psychopathic monsters are likely to succeed. But many prefer to sleep.

We need our own version of Event 201 with war-gaming what the megalomaniacs will try. The good thing is that they have to publish their plan in order for the globalist agents to act.

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This complacency seems to have fractured a few of the anti-mandate groups I worked with as they no longer had a common cause to unite around. I know someone who works for the WHO and they showed we documents demonstrating that the WHO was planning to continue the COVID campaign for years in the 3rd world.

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I understand the main event is to get these jabs on the childhood vax schedule... god forbid.

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That's why I've been trying to highlight what happened in California as it has been the spearhead for everything else.

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And by the time Humanity realizes that this is about depopulation, it will be obvious...

You know you're dealing with psychopaths when they're willing to cull CHILDREN.

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The gravy train arrived and they shall ride until the train dries up. Fear only can last for so long in stable people.

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The next "plandemic" may well be a financial one. That might rattle some cages...

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I think this was originally planned to happen after Hillary got elected and we have all been living on borrowed time since it never unfolded.

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Wow! That's what I think, too. I think there were all sorts of plans that got messed up in 2016 and they were scrambling to course correct. Then the Wulab let it go by mistake and early and they said, oh what the hell, let's just do it now.

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They are trying to scoop as much as possible up before they do it... into the hands of the major weapons folks, via Ukraine... saw a terrific explanation of what's brought us to today from the brilliant Matt Ehret... All this Covid stuff and eugenics and the destruction of spirituality and sooooo much of our health/reality/training in how we are "useless eaters," etc etc etc... check him out sometime, it's like we never were taught a damn thing in school (well, nothing TRUE)... https://rumble.com/v14uvrz-a-sweeping-history-of-the-nwo-1776-present.html It will wear you out, maybe, but also inform you BIG TIME... ^_^ Love the guy. And his wife, too. Forget her name, last name Chang? Chung? Sorry. These are history titans!

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While I absolutely agree that there must be emotional calm when approaching the dr, I have to admit that emotionally, I am not there with my family member who was harmed by decades of bad dietary advice. And by religious adherence to Guidelines without appropriate curiosity as to whether this family member even met Guidelines in the first place. Meaning, this family member’s uncommon presentation of a common disease ought to have provoked at least SOME curiosity in the treating physicians who therefore should have evaluated the person for confounding, contributing conditions. They did not. And so now this person is suffering with a lifelong, quality-of-life limiting condition. Being managed, of course, with pharmaceuticals. Which I am starting wonder if they are not contributing to the person’s ongoing fatigue. Because according to the drs, the severity of the health problem shouldn’t be causing this amount of fatigue. But, honestly, I don’t think they care enough to ask. They think they care. But, they aren’t really curious enough to care.

Anyway, it would be mostly pointless for me to bring this up to a dr.

Many of my close friends are physicians, and it’s really hard to not be able to be forthright with them about not only the hardness of the situation with my family member BUT ALSO the increased hardness knowing that the current situation could probably have been prevented.

I attempted recently to share w a long time mentor, who happens to be a retired physician, how sad I have felt about this. Her response was that this family member wouldn’t even be alive were it not for procedure X several years ago {true!} and that although she has heard of fraudulent studies recently, this was certainly not the case years ago when she trained or these other physicians trained. 🙄 She seemed aghast that I would even suggest that my family member’s situation might have been caused by bad dietary advice. I told her that I didn’t want to debate the issue at that time, but that I have many books here at home demonstrating how the modern American diet has made us sicker.

I would have a really really hard time pretending to give a doctor the benefit of the doubt in my present state of mind. I guess it might depend on the exact issue. And the particular physician. But, I am by nature not a schmoozer, and to schmooze in this context would feel really hard.

I’m not saying you are wrong. I think you are right.

I’m saying I don’t think I could do that.

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It's really a mixed bag with docs and I've seen many people like the ones you described so I get why you are understandably upset with the system. My goal here was to layout the advice I could think of to get you a good outcome from a doctor.

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Yes, thanks for your reply.

And yes, I understand your goal, and I think that you are spot on. Nobody wants to be approached with overt hostility. Your advice is prudent.

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It does seem ironic that we must tiptoe around the egos of some folks, while they seem utterly unconcerned (some of them, sometimes) about what their patient, and the family members of the patient, are going through. I relate! Sorry for this happening to you and your loved one.

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they should know that this hostility is the only thing they’ve honestly earned and if they wish to get a different attitude, they must earn it too, as all of us do. but they don’t want to. they work only on thrir relationship with their bosses and boards, not with patients. and for a good reason: if they mess up the former, they get a painful backlash. if the latter, nothing happens to them. so they have little to none incentive to care about patients and are strongly incentivused to care about their reputation within their boards and corporations. who also have no motivation to care about the patients. or to make the doctors care about them.

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You have succeeded swimmingly at meeting your goal. Thank you for taking the time to do so.

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I love your writings! Personally, I intend to stay away from doctors and stay healthy on my own. Even though I see your advice as spot-on, the idea of placating and more-or-less begging a doctor to help me is anathema to my core. I will only go to a doctor if I know exactly what I want (setting a broken arm, for example).

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It really varies doctor to doctor. Goal of this was to provide the advice that would help in the difficult situations. For me it's more important to get a good outcome then to follow my personal feelings on a topic.

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May 19, 2022Liked by A Midwestern Doctor

If anyone is interested in my views, I post a video every two weeks: https://rumble.com/v13wsau-its-about-control-not-science-be-free-and-unafraid...-episode-96.html

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Jun 2, 2022Liked by A Midwestern Doctor

It must have taken you a long time (and years of experience) to write something so comrehensive. You have given this a great deal of thought. It is very sad that you had to write something like this, but I am sure we are very grateful that you did.

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May 19, 2022Liked by A Midwestern Doctor

Thank You.

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May 19, 2022Liked by A Midwestern Doctor

I appreciate the time and thought you put into these very worthwhile recommendations. Thank you.

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Another annoying thing is that doctors think everything is caused by a pathogen.

No, right now you have strep in your throat, ecoli in your intestines and yet are fine.

But whatever, it's a stupid religion based on honoring past frauds like Louis pasteur, Jenner, Jonas Salk and other overhyped morons and sellouts.

The Spanish flu was another one that they couldn't prove transmission, even when they directly injected infected blood into others.

https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/67902

I guess the only way they can prove transmission is like in the polio and rabies "proofs"where they injected the infected material directly into the brain of animals, which would cause sickness even if it's not infected with "viruses".

Http://viroliegy.com

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Focusing on the microbe is the ideal political solution because it makes pharmaceuticals be the only solution and gets all the other bad actors out of having responsibility for their actions.

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After all of my life focusing only on the microbes, only now am I learning to consider the microbe’s terrain.

Indeed, WHY, if H flu and S pneumo etc live happily in our noses most of the time, do they suddenly one day tear up in the form of meningitis, say? I sorta get how a pre-existing URI can predispose to an ear infection or pneumonia, but even then, we really should be asking why. Why an ear infection in child A but not child B? Why a pneumonia in Grandma but not in Mom?

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Indeed. Maybe because you can't patent vitamins (aw, man!), and you can't make money from clean water and good food and healthy lifestyles and sunshine and exercise and ... so forth. But, but, but... the money! the money!

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BRAVO, Doc.

"If the doctor is still resistant to considering that the pharmaceutical could have caused the adverse events, it is important to become firm in your position while remaining accepting of the doctor’s perspective."

Perhaps from a different perspective:

As a practicing community pharmacist for 38 years I actually found doctors very responsive to my calls regarding drug therapy, as I tried to combine all pertinent facts including costs as well as recommending possible solutions but these rarely were the kind of devastating quality of life affecting injuries we see with the vaccines, and even more common reactions like angioedema absolutely required a trip to the hospital so after the initial action I was "out of the loop."

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With the increased zinc supplementation, there's now a rising risk of copper deficiency. I'd like to find supplements that combine zinc with copper in pharmacies.

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I've been learning a lot about the root cause protocol recently bc its really helped a few of my patients. Prior to this I always thought the issue was too much copper and too little zinc.

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Jun 8, 2022Liked by A Midwestern Doctor

“Never be afraid to raise your voice for honesty and truth and compassion against injustice and lying and greed. If people all over the world … would do this, it would change the earth.” ~ William Faulkner

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good advice... Jesus Christ is still healing.

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Your comments on types of intelligence reminds me of Ian McGilchrist's work on the left-brain/right-brain dichotomy. We have become increasingly left brain dominated---especially in the sciences--leading to the sort of reductionist algorithmic thinking you are describing, rather than the "big picture" type of thinking more typical of the right brain. It does help explain why the farmers and truck drivers seem to "get it" while the intellectual class (selected and trained to be left brain thinkers) seems to have lost its collective mind. McGilchrist's book "The Master and His Emissary" should be required reading.

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The left brain right brain thing is a fascinating topic I think is greatly unappreciated in our left brained society. You need each for certain tasks, and it's very rare to find to find people who can integrate both. I had some very unusual unfortunate circumstances that happened to me which made that possible.

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Oh, that sounds like a fascinating topic for a post-COVID (if THAT ever happens) series...

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Hermetic energy flows in through the feminine left side of body, interpreted in feminine right brain which communicates to masculine left brain which takes action with right side of body ... why most are right handed... maybe why wedding rings on left hand?... balance is best.

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May 19, 2022Liked by A Midwestern Doctor

And Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor speaks of this too.

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I had an oncologist point his finger at me in my late 20's telling me I should have a complete hysterectomy, since my Mother was being treated for a rare cancer. Something inside my own innate intelligence told me not too. We all have our inner knowing wisdom, it is the never ending cycle of life to keep hearing it and trusting it. The busyness in our culture to attain more,is like a hamsters on the wheel. Sooner we realize as a collective we have created this system( that is being dismantled) the sooner the fields our covered in beauty to thrive in.

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>.<

Those surgeries are so devastating to women and way overdone.

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Unless you identify as “trans”.

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a lot of trans men retain their uteruses.

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I’m glad to hear that. I hate to see permanent solutions to temporary problems.

I’m old enough to have seen medical fads come and go. I wore an infant brace on my feet for a year in the late ‘60s; in the early 70s it was removal of tonsils and adenoids and tubes in ears. In the 90s, most of the women I knew had been subjected to mass treatment of “precancerous cells” due to HPV(?). Fen-Phen. The mass use of statins. The mass-drugging of our children with psychoactive meds in the ‘00s. And, of course, the opioid crisis.

These are just the ones I’ve lived through and can think of. Sterilizing kids is another.

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the trans industry is really predatory

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We see eye-to-eye then. Wonderful!

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May 19, 2022·edited May 19, 2022

Well put, Doc. I have enjoyed your writings and have profited thereby. Keep thinking and writing...

The best technique I have seen for "red-pilling" others is that described by Dr. Madhava Setty in this 50 minute video - https://rumble.com/vy5ule-ask-your-doctor-to-explain-this.html

(I give the video a C for videography but an A+ for ideas.)

Setty suggests you find information that you and your "target" both agree with and use only that in making your case. He uses the Pfizer EUA study results for material and demonstrates numerous inconsistencies.

Being an engineer, not a doc, I also suggest the following..

Challenge your doctor friend with a number of other diseases which present with viral replication AND/OR inflammation AND/OR coagulation. Ask when and how (s)he would use established treatments to alleviate symptoms and/or address the underlying cause. Then ask why the problems of replication, inflammation, and coagulation are any different for Covid.

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May 19, 2022Liked by A Midwestern Doctor

You've suggested really good strategies for dealing with a doctor you have to placate or help move out of their zombie state so they can treat you effectively. Using the Pfizer data that is being released is a great idea and challenging your doctor with other diseases which present with viral replication, inflammation and/or coagulation & ask them why that is any different than Covid is a great strategy. But the fact that a patient would have to resort to such strategies when seeing a Doctor is outrageous.

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May 19, 2022Liked by A Midwestern Doctor

I realize these strategies are difficult for patients to use. My suggestions were primarily directed at AMWD and likeminded doctors who are trying to red-pill other doctors.

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I need to read that guys book. Whenever I try to redpill people, I always shoot for figuring out where someone to at and then I try to push them slightly past that.

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The only convincing argument that can sometimes work for me is usually showing the other party what's good/bad for them. If they are not hindered by a previous existential decision, it sometimes works. :)

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You are really fast on the reply. See my previous note for an edit and another thought.

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Roger that. That is an interesting thought on COVID.

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My experience has been one key is to format the discussion with relevant questions. Tell me what is true, and I probably will at least initially push back or think defiantly. Ask me what I think about some facts, and I'm completely open to interpreting them differently from my preconceived biases. Avoid the direct confrontation, at least to start.

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Upon consideration, I see that my public school education, especially Kindergarten to 6th grade, taught me COMPETITION. Raise your hand first. Speak the loudest. Speak the longest. Win. Win. Win. Prove how much you know. Do not cooperate with others, it is not necessary for your success (a good reportcard). It is no wonder we have lost so much.

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"Team work" is the other extreme; nobody is responsible.

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Thanks Ray. If speaking of a project, or a paper, or a committee...I agree, folks can hide bad behavior within those structures...not contribute their share (your history on that?) ..but ultimately, I depend on hundreds/thousands of people throughout the day in ways invisible to me, from the pothole fixer to the lunch cart taco maker to the IT tech. To say we achieve on our own is a fallacy when dissected even a bit.

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Good discussion here. I feel compelled to pipe up!

Yes, there are lots of examples how we all make the world go 'round, so to speak. However, when an artist works many long hours creating a magnificent painting, an engineer designs a robot capable of dexterity, or a mother breeds, home-schools, develops, and raises children into successful adults, these are "nearly" completely attributable to these individuals. (OK, throw me a bone here. . .)

Yeah, the artist uses acrylic paints developed by many people, the engineer was taught design & programming by teachers, and the mom was taught interpersonal development and teaching by HER mom. . . but mostly, these are individual achievements and should be lauded as such-- no giving trophies to those who also "tried"! It is these folks reaching the top of the heap whom we all try to emulate.

There is a LOT to be said for competition that at least partially drove these achievements.

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The idea that competition is the best or only way to achievement has no clear evidence to support it that I have seen; competition has long been touted as a "good" thing, but there's never been any actual documentation for that idea, as far as I know. It seems far more likely that competition is actually antithetical to a healthy social order, as it rewards aggression and individual domination, instead of a team effort kind of approach that encourages every member of the team to participate in her/his capacity and enjoyment, with the resulting reward being camaraderie in working together toward a common goal and a stronger societal bond.

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May 21, 2022·edited May 21, 2022

I work on a team of dozens of engineers that create and maintain simulation software and the computing environment it runs on for NASA's human space flight program. Nothing we do is possible without teamwork. Solutions we devise come from positive collaboration across a dozen specialists. At some point, the complexity of the achievement requires a team.

That said, I've learned my entire life just like those mentioned above me that competitiveness is a key to success. However, I'd say it's a competitive response that provides the motivation... which provides the energy to achieve great things.

Big things require motivation, energy, and appropriate capabilities. All are necessary for most great discoveries and achievements.

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Hmmm. When was the last time you participated in a chili cooking competition or barbecue competition? Making the chili ONLY yourself; likely using a recipe someone else originally developed but YOU tweaked it and, lo and behold, it WON! That is YOUR achievement. period. You did not address this after being offered 3 good examples.

Your response addressed an imputation not made: Competition is the best or ONLY way to achievement. Allow me to expand on my point: Universally, the social construct offered by competition engenders a motivation in society to exceed beyond the status quo. Competition is GOOD for society. Competition has nothing to do with aggression; separate issue. Competition is also not domination nor does it foster unfettered domination. Competition is a challenge among individuals(or even teams!) to excel and shown ones' best efforts.

With no competition natural selection could not have happened.

With no competition for territory homo sapiens would still be Neanderthal.

With no competition neither the Russians nor the USA would have ever launched a spacecraft. We would not have reached the moon, the Hubble telescope would never have shown the heavens.

Competition is good for individuals and for teams. Let us not delude ourselves.

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author

Competition is good, excessive competition is bad and societies that revolve around have a lot of issues of their own.

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This is not an argument for a black and white, all or nothing perspective. You assert all kinds of things, without anything to back up your assertions other than it's your opinion. That's fine. I'm not trying to say NO competition is good, and ANY competition is bad. You can imagine I am "deluding myself" all you want, it doesn't make any difference to me. Perhaps you might ask yourself the same question. Point is, there is plenty of evidence "out there" that supports what I said. I'm not going to do your homework for you.

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