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A Midwestern Doctor's avatar

After emailed this, I realized I forgot one suggestion which I just added in:

•Consider adding a final required board exam (after Step 3) for residents which assesses competency in lifestyle medicine, treating issues many patients chronically struggle with (that at best have perpetual management with harmful medications) and the basics of integrative medicine that parties outside the medical profession are allowed to have input on shaping. Were this to be made and required for licensure or board certification (which could be done at a federal or state level), I think it would create a cultural shift where these arts would begin to be taught in a place where there is space for them and make residents be able to first hand see the benefits of them.

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MarineWife's avatar

This article concisely validates the loss of trust in the medical profession that I’ve experienced over the past several years. In

my case it was slowly occurring before Covid but it has greatly accelerated since 2020. It’s probably been 15 years since our beloved internal medicine Dr retired that my husband and I have had a doctor we feel is truly invested in our health. You are spot on with the electronic medical records and the devastation it’s caused in the doctor patient relationship. Our doctor never takes his eyes off the computer screen so he never makes eye contact and there’s no human connection. He doesn’t like to be questioned, he gets defensive when we question him which further erodes our trust.

He became quite angry several months ago when I told him I was going off of my statin prescription. I’ve recently been admitted to the hospital for a frightening bout of hyponatremia which occurred due to recommendations I received from a nephrologist to limit sodium to 1200 mg a day. I’ve been striving to meet that 1200 mg for three years and it landed me in the hospital 10 days ago very close to a catastrophic outcome. Knowing it could’ve been avoided ( after reading your article on the war on salt) the entire event is so upsetting. To be honest when the hyponatremia event took place I was terrified to go to the hospital because I don’t trust them. At some point one becomes so sick that the fear goes out the window and you just don’t care. That’s where I was at. After a 12 hour wait in the emergency room I was admitted to the hospital at 4:00 in the morning the next day. I’m 70 years old and this was not always the way it was. Doctors of the 70s 80s 90s and early 2000s were compassionate caring partners in our care. That’s gone. I look forward to your Substack articles and so very much appreciate the time you take into sharing this information with all of us.

Keep doing what you’re doing. You’re a blessing to everyone who has the good fortune to be introduced to your articles.

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aprayerformonkey's avatar

I went to the ER last year with very strange symptoms. I could not take a full breath without searing pain. It felt just like the pneumonia I had with 'covid' My BP was through the roof, my heart rate was as well, high glucose [ am not diabetic ] Then I thought I was having a heart attack or stroke. In 3 1/2 hours, I spoke to doctor for 30 seconds, the nurses for several minutes and the one who drew the blood had never done it before. I was quite dehydrated and asked for water twice with the nurse at the desk saying over the loudspeaker, 'Well we'll see what we can do for ya " Never got water. I was never so happy to leave a place. I have been going to this hospital since 1998. They were the best. It is genuinely frightening to see was has happened.

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Leskunque Lepew's avatar

Once in a hospital.. you are the product, and they will not let go of you until they can bang a number ($$$) to make the administrator happy.

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aprayerformonkey's avatar

I wonder how much they saved on the paper cup.

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Loretta's avatar

LOL

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Loretta's avatar

Exactly

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Paramaniac's avatar

Unfortunately my trust is zero at the moment.

I trust them with broken bones but that's about it.

I argue in my substack (plausibly I believe) that not a single person has died of Covid 19 and that the vaccines are the 21st century Thalidomide.

Covid 19 never actually existed and so the vast majority of the millions who died, died (either directly or indirectly) at the hands of the Doctors (ventilation,Midazolam) and politicians following the Doctors orders(lockdowns and vaccines)

That's from someone who has worked as a frontline Paramedic for 25 years.

Either I've learnt nothing about medicine in those 25 years (the most likely reaction from most people) or I've learnt something about medicine that not many others are aware of.

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Atomic Handyman's avatar

To learn from their mistakes, they must first admit to them. I'm glad you are honest. My friend from college, now a retired doctor, still believes that mostly those refusing mRNA vaccines died from covid.

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MarineWife's avatar

It must be doubly disturbing to have been working in your position and be an eyes wide open witness to the decline in the medical field. I like to say that there has been one positive thing come from the Covid scam and that is that for those paying attention the mask has been removed - the corruption exposed.

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Yusuf JP Saleeby MD's avatar

That is the chief reason (pre-pandemic) that I established the Priority Health Academy to teach integrative and functional medicine to clinicians and add in a dollop of ethics training. https://rumble.com/v2iu8gh-dr-miller-on-fox-news.html was very upsetting to see such a violation of our Hippocratic Oath by so many licenses practitioners.

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Donna's avatar

That will never happen as long as Pharma continues to fund med schools.

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Mouzer's avatar

And the FDA is still captured by pHARMa.

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Alan Fogle's avatar

The only hope of better things is in the education of the people in right principles. Let physicians teach the people that restorative power is not in drugs, but in nature. Disease is an effort of nature to free the system from conditions that result from a violation of the laws of health. In case of sickness, the cause should be ascertained. Unhealthful conditions should be changed, wrong habits corrected. Then nature is to be assisted in her effort to expel impurities and to re-establish right conditions in the system. {MH 127.1}

Pure air, sunlight, abstemiousness, rest, exercise, proper diet, the use of water, trust in divine power--these are the true remedies. Every person should have a knowledge of nature's remedial agencies and how to apply them. It is essential both to understand the principles involved in the treatment of the sick and to have a practical training that will enable one rightly to use this knowledge. {MH 127.2}

The use of natural remedies requires an amount of care and effort that many are not willing to give. Nature's process of healing and upbuilding is gradual, and to the impatient it seems slow. The surrender of hurtful indulgences requires sacrifice. But in the end it will be found that nature, untrammeled, does her work wisely and well. Those who persevere in obedience to her laws will reap the reward in health of body and health of mind. {MH 127.3}

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aprayerformonkey's avatar

And that is why nature is being destroyed in so many ways. The water is toxic. The animals are toxic. The air is toxic. It's to late imo

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Alan Fogle's avatar

We are in a toxic world, no doubt. We need to do the best we can under the present conditions. As much as possible we need to get out of he cities and move to the country where there is less pollution, grow our own food, organically and take heed the 8 remedies that are in the above quote. By doing these things we can counter act to a large degree the toxins that we are being bombarded with !!!

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aprayerformonkey's avatar

Agreed. I do not understand why there is so little her about detoxification [ unless I am not looking in the right place.] It would seem that if the poison is always coming, the best thing to do would be to keep it running through as fast as possible.

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Alan Fogle's avatar

I am not doctor, Praise the Lord !! I appreciate the Midwestern doctor very much, but it is a profession that I would not want to be a part of. Most do really not know how to treat people for the problems they have. They are taught to treat symptoms and not get to the underlying problem, just as the Midwestern Dr. writes about in this article. If we take heed to the principles in my first comment we will slow the toxins down from coming into our bodies to begin with. Then we need to keep our bowels moving regularly, drink plenty of water to flush toxins out thru the Kidneys, and get enough sunshine and exercise to flush toxins out through our skin, the largest organ of the body. If not able to get the sunshine and exercise then consider a sauna. Just suggestions.

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California Girl's avatar

Many cannot simply move to the country for a cleaner way of life - because their jobs are in the city.

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Alan Fogle's avatar

that is why they make automobiles.

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Ande's avatar

True, I travel into the city for my job. 20min drive, 1.5 hour train journey, if on time. The beautiful, peaceful and lovely rural place we now live is worth the travel for a job I like. We seem to be willing to sacrifice a lot for jobs. People I know took the jab for jobs they didn’t like and left 12 months later. Caveat that the only good thing coming out of Convid is 2 days only in the office, makes the travel possible, would have to change jobs probably otherwise, there are plenty out here.

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yantra's avatar

and avoidance of wireless radiation, the massive invisible pollutant. especially close range like cellphones, wifi, smartwatches and especially wireless "wearables" and implantables that rfkj is now touting.

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Alan Fogle's avatar

All of that has a lot to do with the bad health of the nation, for sure.

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Emily's avatar

I love your article, but I might disagree with further board exams. Many residents are already overworked and overextended-- further testing in this state shackles rather than frees the mind. Board examinations tend to create a testing industry which ultimately aligns with the current monetary structure. The "root causes" of the problems with medicine are much much deeper than the medical system itself.

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A Midwestern Doctor's avatar

That's why you need an outside party to have a say in what goes on the test.

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Mouzer's avatar

Yes, and the more power extended to groups, whether professional or governmental, the more restrictions make learning and innovation impossible. Better to let maket conditions fix some problems. As doctors become more frustrated, like mine who brilliantly went independent when Obamacare started, they may figure out there are other options.

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LINCOLN LOVER's avatar

Yes, the whole of medicine is on the track of drugs and it is the wrong track. We have no longer healthy food, air or water and people have been poisoned by vaccines which is JUNK science.

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Fred Jewett's avatar

My GP started her practice after finishing her residency and I was one of the first on her roster. She has helped me more than any other doctor I have had. She started her family shortly thereafter so her time for extended training would be limited. I expect she is a GP in a medical clinic to allow her time to be with her family.

The only improvement I would ask is that she stop recommending vaccines to me,

especially the triplex ones. She only started doing that 3 years ago..

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Ferah Glott's avatar

I so appreciate your perspective and thoughtfulness. I truly needed this article. I have (or I should say *HAD, past tense) an *excellent* internist for over 25 years. He thought outside the box, listened with his heart, researched and puzzled openly with humility and caring interest through my non-standard auto-immune disorders. He openly discussed even spiritual or philosophical ideas to the point he was actually willing to change his mind at times. Over the years he has clearly struggled to remain autonomous - case in point, he about killed himself to personally memorize all the Obama Care medical coding system (thousands and thousands of numbers) in a herculean attempt keep his private practice open! Then finally, when he physically couldn't hold up under the onorous requirements, he switched group practices 3 or more times in the last 10 yrs, trying to find a way to spend enough time with his patients. *The guy was priceless.* But, to my utter shock and horror, COVID finally seems to have broken him. He listened to some guy from Harvard, and bought into the lies, vaccinated his 5 kids and was vaccinated himself, (though he was man enough to accept my decision not to without despising me.) I think now, under the cognitive dissonance he's experiencing in the aftermath, he just seems broken, without the same spark, rushed and empty after this final switch to a practice he thought would be better and is much worse than his last situation. I finally made the decision not to follow him to the new practice upon learning that the concierge fee was doubling, but it broke my heart to see what the system has done to such a good physician and person. I also have two relatives, one a hospitalist and another an ICU nurse now in medical school, both very well meaning, principled, and brilliant individuals. I couldn't understand when both bought into the COVID ideas so thoroughly they were willing to annihilate family members and close friends over differences in opinion. Now after reading your insights, it all makes sense - while it still hurts to see their "demise," I can accept it and feel less horror and bewilderment toward them personally. So that's a great relief for me. But almost more, your optimism toward the whole system is so refreshing - yes we have a broken system, but under the right circumstances some may pull through enough to offer alternatives, both in the education of medical students, and in practice options. You are a treasure, and I read every article you write with great interest, frequent epiphany, and always profound admiration.

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Torgul's avatar

Well, I know for me w/o typing so much. Watching what they have done over the last five years, and then realizing they have done similar things for many decades.

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Manuela's avatar

I have been watching your substack for a while and I think you are a good doctor, with a big soul. I subscribed only one month to read about DMSO; I live in Europe, more exactly in Romania. I have a question for you! If you love people, why not look for a solution for us, in order to eliminate the self-assembly nanoparticles from the blood of people because, if we do not remove them from the blood, it will be decisive for the enslavement of mankind, and the forgotten medicine you present will not count. The human being is modified with synthetic biology and we will disappear as people. Then what the true medicine will use, the forgotten part of medicine will forever disappear!

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T. Jeanne's avatar

Just keep deleting any and all criticisms - that'll correct everything peachykeen doc!

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Gigi's avatar

The Donald Trump justice department is persecuting a doctor Kirk Moore in Utah for saving lives. He knew the Covid shot was a kill shot. People were begging him to help them because the shot mandates were preventing children from going to school, soldiers from serving in the military, preventing people from visiting sick parents in the hospital, getting organ, transplants, you name it. He devised a plan to inject them with saline rather than the real Covid vaccine, and give them the necessary paperwork to have a chance at a normal life. He did this at their request for no charge. For this, he is facing 35 years in a federal penitentiary. Bobby Kennedy knows about this and is doing nothing. This poor man is a single father, veteran, and world class, hero. Prominent “health freedom doctors” are silent..it is outrageous! Are you familiar with this case?

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Dr. K's avatar

I am and it is outrageous. Bondi herself blessed the continued persecution (I mean prosecution, sort of) when the judge questioned having the trial at all because he expected the government to stand down. She is short for the world, I expect...and will not be missed.

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Gigi's avatar

This p prosecution/persecution after letting all the Epstein horrors go unanswered is just too much. People are burning their MAGA hats over all of these betrayals. Also crickets from Bobby. Gee thanks Bobby.

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michael janket's avatar

Trump learned at the knee of Roy Cohn. His one sided imperialism is a disgrace and in his own way, he may soon pull ahead of Biden in insanity levels. Just what we need. Bondi needs a ticket out of town, she's a liar and another weak spined official, just like our Congress. Our government wants to help kill us, what is more obvious?

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Leskunque Lepew's avatar

I doubt DJT had anything to do with Roy Cohn.

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bahiaballena's avatar

good news on Kirk Moore: Bondi dismissed the case.

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Gigi's avatar

Oh my gosh. This is great news thanks for sharing. I was really touched by the amazing support Dr. Moore got at his press conference. And the heartfelt speech his son gave.

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Donna's avatar

We have been betrayed by all, including RFK. We need to stand up for ourselves.

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Big E's avatar

See some contact info and action items here:

COVID Shots — Dr. Kirk Moore faces jail time for protecting his patients from COVID shots. Two stories (posted 07/09/25). Dr. Kirk Moore was indicted and is being tried for not killing and maiming his patients with COVID-19 shots. Learn about Dr. Moore’s case and about ways to help him. https://tinyurl.com/ynvc8rzs

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Dan Senior's avatar

All charges were dropped by the Trump Administration, Pam Bondi, on July 13, 2025.

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Priscilla King's avatar

Who's writing/tweeting/texting to thank her?

I am. Good night, all.

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michael janket's avatar

Two words- surveillance and totalitarianism. Bobby Jr. is under enormous pressure and prior to his appointment as Secy. he entertained some ideas which were questionable. When you think oppression, think about repression. He has little power as Deep State has him by the 'nads. Likewise, Trump is captured but deep down inside, I feel Trump was sent to DC to help overthrow the government and lead us to communism. I am very suspicious of Trump, he tends toward spasticity and knee jerk ways of doing things. He's now a full blown oligarch and I fear for the future of this nation.

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Butterfly2510's avatar

But you didn’t fear for it while Biden and Kamala were in office?

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Kim's avatar
Jul 11Edited

This argument always dismays me. Even if the former was a disaster, it doesn’t mean Trump can’t be a disaster, too. If he brings in CBDC/ biometric ID, etc., we’re sunk either way. It’s very disconcerting Trump has never acknowledged any harm from the vaccines. Either they aren’t causing the harm I keep reading about or he’s fine with it. There’s no way he can’t be aware. And I’ve always read in the end, borders are ultimately used to keep people in more than out.

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SF Med's avatar

Time to wake up, they are all actors.

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michael janket's avatar

No, that was not fear, it was too obvious that our presidents going back to Ike are all hand chosen handmaidens of Deep State. I would say fatalism is perhaps more apropos than fear. Like, we were born to lose and losing is what we do. Trump, deep down inside, loves his adopted nation of Israel far more than the US. In his own words, he says that "I was enamored of Israel going way back in my life". The Tribe simply wants it all.

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SF Med's avatar

As a jewish person, I suggest that you may be falling for the classic "divide and conquer" play.

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Priscilla King's avatar

As a Christian person, I see the loss of support for this administration the same way. We always knew they weren't going to be perfect. We need to stand with them--arguing, if necessary, but not going back to Biden or Bernie Sanders.

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michael janket's avatar

I'm all for keeping my eyes open. Typically, sooner or later sayanim will identify themselves to reasonably careful observers.

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SF Med's avatar

I belive when I say Trump is an actor, I am agreeing with your original post regarding all presidents back to Ike.

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Leskunque Lepew's avatar

Indeed

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Xmen442002's avatar

Kennedy is the in the second most powerful position in our government.

This is because of a illegal law Trump signed(98% Congressional approval) on June 24,2019 that gave HHS and DOD full control of the Federal government in the event that a national health emergency was declared.

That emergency was declared 6 months later on January 27, 2020.

Trump was completely powerless his entire last year as were the other two branches.

We have been under this abbreviated and altered system of government since this declaration.

Perhaps this explains why all the laws we see being broken and none enforced?!

HHS and DOD interpret the laws as they see fit

Source: https://bailiwicknews.substack.com/p/american-domestic-bioterrorism-program

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Nama Paula's avatar

His case dismissed today.❤️🙏

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Thomas A Braun RPh's avatar

It has been dissolved!

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bobwnelson's avatar

Let this play out. Might be a rope-a-dope situation.

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William Jeffreys's avatar

My doctor became so upset when I questioned the wisdom of having an experimental gene therapy injected into my body he threw his clipboard across the room and screamed at me. He saved my life once, then tried to kill me once (five people I knew personally expired less than one week after partaking of the magic sauce), so I consider us even. They pushed that nonsense and foolishness 24/7, full court press. Ads, billboards, MSM fear tactics. No, I don't trust them at all. They're the paid lackeys of the pharmaceutical industry and they accept all the "science" blindly without question.

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Butterfly2510's avatar

I hope you fired him on the spot. What an arse.

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Jinc's avatar

One thing is for sure. He tried to kill you once with a jab, whether he knew it was a disaster or not. Remember, though, we don't know for sure that he saved your life, because of "the seen and the unseen." So don't give him too much credit without that certainty.

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William Jeffreys's avatar

I was quickly dying of a heart attack and he installed a stent, which brought me back. That was about seven years ago

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Crixcyon's avatar

You are wise to draw the line on just how many poisons you will allow them to pump into you.

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Leskunque Lepew's avatar

Tell your doctor to read the patent. It's right in there.. gene therapy injection.

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aprayerformonkey's avatar

I had similar experiences with 3 different doctors over a span of 20 years. The anger is not normal. There is a force behind it that tells you- if they could- they would shoot you on the spot. I just wish I had videos. The last time, my adult daughter was present. She was white and shaking in the parking lot. There were a few seconds during the interchange where it really seemed like he was going to hit me. When he stood up to 'show us out -' as the door opened and he was now in full view of the front desk, he shape shifted back to the affable professional physician. It was surreal and the whole incident was precipitated by me asking what his views were on the differing treatment protocols for Lyme Disease. I said it respectfully with the ' you know so much more than I do Bambi eyes and all' as I have learned well and this with a patient who was failing right in front of him with dwindling hope of living into her 30's. And people wonder how the Holocaust happened.

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SF Med's avatar

Abusers always become enraged when questioned. Battered wives all know this.

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aprayerformonkey's avatar

Yes. Former battered wife.

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Nancy's avatar

Gotta love the former part. Kudos to you for changing your life.

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aprayerformonkey's avatar

Thanks, Still lots of work to do. The hard part is having to face my own part in the sick cycle. Being a perpetual victim is easy in comparison to facing your own complicity. The best I can say is that the trajectory is in the right direction now. How long I have to progress in the path of good, I do not know. I am not young and the time is drawing near that I will have to give account for the deposits given to me by God and what I did with them. Right now it's not looking too great, but I keep that in front of me, as going back is not an option.

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Nancy's avatar

Keep a (+) attitude, and yes, prayer goes a long way. It's not so much about where you've been, but about where you are and where you are going. You've got the direction right! :-)

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Loretta's avatar

I was thinking the exact thing.

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Donna's avatar

You used the term "shape shifter", of which there are many who have infiltrated humanity.

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aprayerformonkey's avatar

The Scriptures tells us that when the devil lies ,he speaks his native tongue. He also always has an endless number of souls who will do anything to obtain and preserve what they want.

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Jinc's avatar

While I appreciate you, AMD, and the steps you have taken over recent years...

I have no hope for western medicine at all.

Nothing can make me change my mind, so I won't.

Doctors of western medicine are ancient relics of an embarrassing past.

Those who take control of their own health will prosper, health-wise, and those who don't won't.

It is that simple.

Thank you kindly for your efforts. Hard pass on all western medicine forever, thanks.

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A Midwestern Doctor's avatar

I almost never use Western medicine but I feel it's very irresponsible for me to tell people to abandon it.

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Kim's avatar

My problem with medicine is, in my personal experience, I’ve seen it perform miracles as well as kill and I don’t believe you can know for sure which outcome you’ll get. It’s like Russian Roulette. So I’m adamant that my medical choices be reserved to myself. So far, at minimum I’ve retained a thyroid gland and kidney by sticking to my own analysis.

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LamedVav disavows all vaxes.'s avatar

Midwestern doctor you are wrong. Tell people to abandon western medicine. That would be the responsible thing to do.

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Jacob99's avatar

What does it mean "Western medicine"? I would think DSMO. ivermectin and most of your articles are based on "Western medicine". You didn't mean when you wrote "If you have an acute condition that will kill you right away, see your doctor and listen to them. Our system is a miracle at addressing these acute issues. But that's less than 10% of our spending."

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Chris Shute's avatar

Jinc. I believe the ultimate health care would be a synthesis of modern and traditional medicine.Modern medicine does some wonderful surgeries and has some good ways of measuring things but lacks woefully in some areas and completely disregards the person's spirit. Medical schools are a form of brainwashing , overloading sleep deprived student' s brains with so much to memorise and rewarding those who can regurgitate what they have been fed as facts.

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Jinc's avatar

Thanks for the reply Chris. Emergency surgery is the only surgery I would ever be able to recommend to anyone, and even that, there is the issue of the seen and the unseen. Would the patient "really" have died? Or is it just convenient to say?

No, for me, the luster that the word surgery used to hold is long-gone.

Put a baboon heart in a human and they live 6 months? How long would they have survived otherwise? There is no way to know, only the question of whether you take at his word the appraisal of the one who wants to sell the surgery.

The same questions exist for everything.

Question everything.

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Butterfly2510's avatar

I am of the same mindset. Question every drug, surgery etc that your Dr is recommending. Look up side effects.

I have a friend whose SIL is 78, found out she has cancer and just started chemo. She’s terribly sick. Why is she doing this??? Then, my friends husband just had his prostate removed due to cancer. The recovery is tough and one of side effects is urinary incontinence. Is this the best we can do? Cut and burn, cut and burn. It’s disgusting. My dad died of prostrate cancer and before he passed they blocked all his testosterone to slow down the progression of his cancer. That alone was so inhumane. OMG. When will people wake up from these barbaric treatments and just say NO???????

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Alan Fogle's avatar

The only hope of better things is in the education of the people in right principles. Let physicians teach the people that restorative power is not in drugs, but in nature. Disease is an effort of nature to free the system from conditions that result from a violation of the laws of health. In case of sickness, the cause should be ascertained. Unhealthful conditions should be changed, wrong habits corrected. Then nature is to be assisted in her effort to expel impurities and to re-establish right conditions in the system. {MH 127.1}

Pure air, sunlight, abstemiousness, rest, exercise, proper diet, the use of water, trust in divine power--these are the true remedies. Every person should have a knowledge of nature's remedial agencies and how to apply them. It is essential both to understand the principles involved in the treatment of the sick and to have a practical training that will enable one rightly to use this knowledge. {MH 127.2}

The use of natural remedies requires an amount of care and effort that many are not willing to give. Nature's process of healing and upbuilding is gradual, and to the impatient it seems slow. The surrender of hurtful indulgences requires sacrifice. But in the end it will be found that nature, untrammeled, does her work wisely and well. Those who persevere in obedience to her laws will reap the reward in health of body and health of mind. {MH 127.3}

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JW Writes's avatar

I had a difficult emergency appendectomy last year - I did go to the ER but they were so slow my appendix was in terrible shape by the time I got to surgery. I am very grateful for that procedure. Otherwise, I don’t have much use for most doctors. I’ve been blessed to have a few really great ones who were like AMD - thought outside the box, took their time. But they all closed their independent practices between Obamacare’s inception and the Covid debacle. It’s sad what’s happened because sometimes we DO need a good doctor.

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Butterfly2510's avatar

True but there are a lot of suppressed treatments out there that we can research and bring healing! I have done this with many things: HS, Carotidynia, afib, ungal fibroma !! It takes a lot of time to research and understand your body and I have the time and interest because I’d rather do that than go to a Dr.

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Butterfly2510's avatar

I agree unless there’s an emergency. Our healthcare is sick care.

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SF Med's avatar

Correct. Abandon the MD's and support the alternatives. The abuser always says he will change. Every battered wife knows that.

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bobwnelson's avatar

Never, EVER lose hope!!!

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Jinc's avatar

I for one haven't. I've just shifted my hope to myself, my research, and sometimes also other people (such as alternative health practitioners) who also acknowledge the terrifying levels of corruption and propaganda in western medicine and understand the results it delivers through that lens.

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Loretta's avatar

Good attitude!

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SF Med's avatar

Hope for what? That MD's will change their ways?

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Alan Fogle's avatar

The only hope of better things is in the education of the people in right principles. Let physicians teach the people that restorative power is not in drugs, but in nature. Disease is an effort of nature to free the system from conditions that result from a violation of the laws of health. In case of sickness, the cause should be ascertained. Unhealthful conditions should be changed, wrong habits corrected. Then nature is to be assisted in her effort to expel impurities and to re-establish right conditions in the system. {MH 127.1}

Pure air, sunlight, abstemiousness, rest, exercise, proper diet, the use of water, trust in divine power--these are the true remedies. Every person should have a knowledge of nature's remedial agencies and how to apply them. It is essential both to understand the principles involved in the treatment of the sick and to have a practical training that will enable one rightly to use this knowledge. {MH 127.2}

The use of natural remedies requires an amount of care and effort that many are not willing to give. Nature's process of healing and upbuilding is gradual, and to the impatient it seems slow. The surrender of hurtful indulgences requires sacrifice. But in the end it will be found that nature, untrammeled, does her work wisely and well. Those who persevere in obedience to her laws will reap the reward in health of body and health of mind. {MH 127.3}

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Fred Jewett's avatar

Western Medicine is needed at times. I had a pulmonary embolism and could hardly breathe a month ago. I sure appreciated the ER doctors that day!

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Jinc's avatar

I appreciate how you feel. I also feel the need to remind you that we don't know how things would have turned out in the alternative universe when you sought care from ER doctors who weren't corrupted by Rockefeller medicine, er, I mean, who weren't trained in western medicine.

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Crixcyon's avatar

Amen.

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Brenda VanWeezel's avatar

@AMidwesternDoctor I will tell you the brainwashing happens in nursing school as well, along with high stress and sleep deprivation. Old school, hospital trained nurses, most of whom have tried, can run circles around new graduates. Florence Nightingale would be appalled at the state of modern nursing. She believed in fresh air, sunshine, fresh food, cleanliness, order, and movement. I don't see those in my nursing at a hospital.

I have a curiosity about the human body and read all sorts of alternatives, which is how I found you. I truly believe nutrition and gut health are key. I was intrigued many years ago, way before nursing school, by the book Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon, based on the work of Weston Price. Do you have any suggestions for nurses that didn't want to just pass pills anymore?

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SF Med's avatar

Brenda, go to NP school or Naturopath school. You will be flooded with patients as the masses wake up to the fact that their MD's are feeding on them.

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SF Med's avatar

Old school nurses, pre 1990's, were taught that their primary role was to act as THE patient advocate. It was not uncommon for them to provide true informed consent prior to administration of a medication. Sometimes this lead to the informed patient changing their mind and refusing the medication. Needless to say, this often infuriated the MD. More than once I have witnessed the Nursing Director drag a red faced MD onto the ward and make him apologize the the entire nursing staff. I'm not sure what the RN's are taught now, or how much power the hospital Nursing Director has.

Also, during medical school the MD professors often blackwash and undermine nurses when alone with the medical students. It is part of the culture and indoctrination. Any MD who denies this is simply not telling the truth.

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A Midwestern Doctor's avatar

That is a great point! I am much less familiar with nurse training than medical student training.

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Butterfly2510's avatar

Do you practice any daily protocols for optimizing your gut health that would be helpful to others or are there books you’d recommend?

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Nancy's avatar

As a fellow nurse, now retired, I can not say enough about the John Lust's 'The Herb Book'. It contains a wealth of good herbal advice (a few counter indications that were not known when it was written concern current Rx meds combined with herbs, ex; do not use hawthorn berry for ^ BP if they are already of an Rx. ,do the deep dive on that one).

I've also found relief for myself with acupressure.

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Nancy's avatar

My fav acupressure reference is Acupuncture Without Needles, J.V.Cerney

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SF Med's avatar

Thank you for the reference.

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Monterey's avatar

Even though I have to pay hundreds of dollars out of pocket each time, I much prefer seeing my naturopath for chronic issues than going to my MD. I always know the MD appointment is going to be surfacy and brief. Too brief. My current MD once told me she wouldn't prescribe ivermectin for covid because it was not mainstream. She called herself a vaccine Nazi. Now that I understand what a scam vaccines are, I will not be taking any vaccine advice from her. Especially after she told me I should take the covid shot even though I had just gotten over covid 30 days prior. There's a reason patients don't trust their doctors anymore......

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Caroline's avatar

I also trust my naturopath more than MD for chronic issues. Mine was also a nurse before becoming a naturopath.

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SF Med's avatar

Perfect.

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SF Med's avatar

Correct.

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Lidia's avatar

The majority of naturopaths in my state were 100% on the covid bandwagon, and would not see un-injected patients, had masking requirements, etc. I must have spoken to ten different offices before finding one (that ended up being sort of sketchy for other reasons) who would help with my husband's back pain.

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Monterey's avatar

Unfortunately not all naturopaths are the same. Mine is an associate in a large naturopathic practice and she's very young but seems really good.

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SF Med's avatar

I'm sorry to hear that. Very disappointing! Are the Naturopaths in your state able to bill insurance and act as primary care? Bill Medicare, etc?

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Lidia's avatar

Oh, yes. They're very well-integrated into the system, but for whatever reason (neuroticism? politics/leftism? probably the latter) they seem to be covid freakazoids.

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SF Med's avatar

I know that billing insurance, especially Medicare, comes with a lot of strings attached. That might of had something to do with it?

I'm curious if the chiropractors had the same attitude during covid? It is hard to do better than a good chiropractor when dealing with back pain.

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Lidia's avatar

We weren't on Medicare at the time. Hadn't thought of a chiropractor. Husband had seen a local naturopath who also did acupuncture, which helped him resolve a leg issue, so he thought to contact him for the back thing. But no! Husband not injected! Then I researched around and found all the naturopaths within a two hour radius were staunch covidians.

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SF Med's avatar

Yikes!

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Dr Joseph's avatar

According to William Kaufman, MD, a medical doctor who pioneered the use of Niacinamide for arthritis and discovered that B3 deficiency is the cause of a whole host of so-called "diseases", back in the early 20th century medical schools were teaching about vitamins and vitamin science in nearly every department. These was this widespread fascination with Casimir Funk's "Vital-Amines", and how diseases that were plaguing mankind for 5000 years were being easily cured.

The 1930s and early 40s was all about these discoveries. There was an entire generation of medical doctors that were bucking old drug and toxin therapies for newly discovered b-vitamins, Vitamin C, and eventually Vitamin E and Niacin. Medicine was transforming...rapidly.

All of this changed with FDR's obsession with polio and finding a "cure" via a vaccine. His crusade changed medicine forever, and "Vitamins" became more on the fringe of modern medicine instead of being the foundation of modern medicine, where doctors and scientists were vilified for any mention of vitamins being a "cure" for disease. A prime example of this is how a southern family doctor named Fredrick Klenner "cured" 60/60 diagnosed polio patients in 3 days using high dose Vitamin C infusions, in 1945, and how he was summarily ignored and ostracized by the medical community, with his research falling into obscurity. 10 years later was the Cutter Incident caused by the "contaminated" polio vaccine.

The discovery of Vitamins, simple molecules directly responsible for all life on this planet, should have been the foundation for modern medicine and should have replaced the outdated medical model that we still have today. It didn't, and there were people responsible for this who you'd never guess were responsible.

Within a few short years, cures for the most devastating diseases that ravaged western civilization, since before even Rome or ancient Greece, were found and easily applied. Now, in the 25th century, over 100 years since the discovery of the first vitamin and the end of "deficiency disease", we are crumbling into a global health crisis that will send us into the modern dark ages, if we are not already there. The solution lies in these simple molecules that are part of natural chemistry. However, the business model of the "science of disease" is much more profitable than the "science of life", and here we are. This is the underlying reason why no one has confidence in medicine anymore; they cure nothing, fix nothing, and just take our money. The whole industry needs to be disassembled from the ground up, and it is a Brando situation, because it will result in the utter collapse of western civilization. They won't go without a fight. And the diagnostic model of medicine is so ingrained in our consciousness that it is nearly impossible to get people to change their minds. Even "natural" medicine and the alternative stuff is based on this methodology, where stuff that has nothing to do with human chemistry is being touted as "cure alls" for what are clearly biochemical deficiency conditions.

I could go on, but you get the point.

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Xmen442002's avatar

I may be the odd one here, but I really like the "flush" that comes with good old regular Niacin.😂

Niacinamide is like taking PURE and unrefined coconut oil and turning it into MCT oil.

You lose many benefits by doing the same with Niacin to Niacinamide.

Believe me, I understand the people who can not tolerate the flush.

As far as Vitamins and supplements, 95% of the world market is worthless.

If the body does not recognize the Vitamin/supplement as a whole food, or if not enteric coated or liposomal in delivery, then the digestion will destroy most(if not all) and none will make it into the small intestine to open up and do the magic it's intended to do in the gut.

GMP means nothing as well. It's just a misleading label.

Same can be said for supplemental probiotics(which seem to be all the buzz these days.)

WOW!! 40 billion cfu per dose!

Hello.....the gut has between 300-400 trillion strains of bacteria and this is like taking a shot at a bullseye 100 yards away, blindfolded, in pitch black, with high winds and rain.

Pre-biotics....a very different story and one worth doing.

Stay away for the antibiotics, as even one round can be devastating on the gut microbiome.

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Donna's avatar

Any recommendations on the prebiotics? Thanks.

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Xmen442002's avatar

kimchi, home made sauerkraut, kefir, some good drinks on the market out there, but do your research at first.

You only need a tablespoon daily for pre-biotics.

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BethanyAnne's avatar

Oh, man, homemade sauerkraut is THE best. I wasn't a big fan til we made our own. I don't know how the commercial makers manage to screw that stuff up so badly, but the difference is night and day. I've made kim chee before, and lacto-fermentables, but a couple months ago, hubs bought me some fermenting crocks, and wanted to try homemade kraut. Delicious!!!

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Donna's avatar

Ok thanks. One question, why not organic, non GMO cold store bought sauerkraut? I'm not a good cook and have failed at making homemade.

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PamelaZelie's avatar

Bubbies Sauerkraut found in the cold section of bigger supermarkets.

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Donna's avatar

Wish it were organic and non GMO.

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Xmen442002's avatar

That's fine, but home made is the best and this is just cabbage fermented and not hard to do.

The cheaper brands at places like Kroger or similar is what you need to keep away from.

Even REAL dill pickles are a good source(but not sweet) if they are prepared properly.

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aprayerformonkey's avatar

Excellent comment. You nailed it.

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Juan's avatar

There will be no trust transfer from me until pharma advertising is stopped. For me, it is the red line. Money is corrupting the entire system and can’t be the driver of health.

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Xmen442002's avatar

the only two countries in the world that allow this are the US and New Zealand.

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Nancy's avatar

I always say, "Money is the answer. - What was the question?"

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Dee's avatar

I Went to See My Cardiologist Yesterday and because of Comments She had made previously I had Concerns and the fact that the huge digital Screen that runs continues ads for Big Pharma Pushing there Pills and Drugs until the doctor gets in to see you So I start asking Her about the Covid 19 Vaccine and She said she definitely recommends everyone take at Least 1 & that just floored Me & So I reply Are You Serious? Do you Really Believe that? So I ask her about Ivermectin ECT Because myself and my elderly parents have been taking it since this Plandemic BS started & to this day we take Ivermectin Once a month as a Maintenance dose we have been Directly Exposed to Covid Sick people twice for Sure as in they were Still Considered Highly Contagious ECT Not 1 time Have Any of Us got Covid Her reply (The Cardiologist) You & Your Family were Just extremely Lucky Because Ivermectin & hydroxie chloroquine Are Both Unsafe and Inaffective The Covid 19 is Safe and Affective Well let's just say after I got done saying my piece She made it quite clear I was Not Welcome Back to Her Office Ever Again & I assured Her I had No intention of Having Her as my Doctor Bottom Line I have VERY LITTLE if any trust for these So Called Doctors

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Henri's avatar

Dee, do you think you could write using some punctuation please - period (full stop) commas etc?

Your content is very informative and useful but I find it very taxing to read and ended up skipping most of it at first, but then forced myself to go back and read again (still had brain ache) to understand - a lot of work for us fellow followers here. Thank you.

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SF Med's avatar

Henri, Dee is recounting her encounter with a serial killer. She seems understandably emotional. Thank God she escaped the vampire's fangs. Don't blame the victim.

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West Coast Biochemist's avatar

BEST COMMENT EVER

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Loretta's avatar

Well said! Screw punctuation...........period

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aprayerformonkey's avatar

But communication is key. If we want others to feel the force of our experience, we must use the tools correctly. We only diminish our ourselves if we don't. That said - as a senior card carrying member of the grammar police, I initially had a difficult time navigating the grasp [ or not ] of the English language on this site. Now I just correct the mistakes in my mind and extract the message. The side effect of that is taking myself a little less seriously [ which is always a good thing ] and if I want to go back and correct my punctuation in a comment I made 6 months ago, I can do that too.

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Loretta's avatar

blah-blah-blah

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BethanyAnne's avatar

Boy, your cardiologist was sure eating up the narrative, wasn't she. LOL

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Dee's avatar

You have No idea My eye started twitching I went in to get test results which according to her my heart looked surprisingly good mind you the first time I met her about 2 months earlier she said to me if I don't have you on medication I go out of business then real quick she says Just Kidding & real quick I replied No No Your Not Kidding so keep that in mind when I had that last interaction with her They are still pushing this death shot on people People who trust her She's going on about how many patients she watched die in the Hospital and I said Yeah because you guys didn't get them early treatment with Ivermectin ect which is Safe and Affective and you blew their lungs out with ventilators and don't get me started with the remdesavire All I know is we have take the Best Care we can for ourselves and our families Because the Calvary is Not Coming to Save Us But Best News Ever Jesus Christ is Coming Soon Very Soon that's the only Saving We Have or Need Woohoo We Fly Soon

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aprayerformonkey's avatar

What manner of persons ought we to be? I would cry a river if just one of these would repent and stand and confess the truth. A must read. God can save anyone.

https://www.denvercatholic.org/mission-aborted-the-conversion-of-ex-abortionist-dr-bernard-nathanson

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SF Med's avatar

She is a criminal. Thank God you escaped her grasp.

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Dee's avatar

Amen to that it Just really upsets me to think of the Great Harm to Patients who truly trust these Doctors.

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Loretta's avatar

And that's the punch line. I think the biggest problem is, they don't look evil and our conscous mind can not accept that yes indeed satan has taken most of them. Because our hearts are pure it is hard to think people still will do what they say.

Yes, it is more than just upsetting. It's a prayer thing and God taking it thing.

ps. praise you for taking that stand!

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Dee's avatar

All Praise to God 🙏It was just Unbelievable on so many Levels & the other thing I didn't mention is the Visit before the "Last" visit l had the gals at the Front desk Make Copies of a Number of different documents by highly published Doctors and the Protocol for detoxing getting the Spike Protein out of the Vaccinated Well I'm sure that she didn't even look at them but on the plus side the gals in the front office and her nursing assistants were all interested in the information because at least 2 of them I spoke with & saw over the various visits Told me they were forced to take the Jab or they would be Fired and they could not afford to be out of work, but yes the fact people trust Doctors like her is very Sad. I hadn't been to the Doctor in about 8 years or so it was in Dec of 2024 that I started going again. But bottom line yes Prayer & Speaking Up and I generally keep an accordion folder with a dozen or so Documents Related to the Clot shot kill shot Covid Vaxx with links to the Original Source

God Bless You and We Keep Shining Light on the Darkness and Sharing the Good News of the Gospel and Our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ We Fly Soon ♥️🫶🙏✝️

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Monterey's avatar

When my youngest was 6 years old, she told me she wanted to be a kid doctor. Since she was a highly capable little student, I told her she'd be a really good one. She did not grow up to be a kid doctor, and I was kind of disappointed about that. But now I realize how glad I am that She did not become one because she probably would have worked for corporate medicine and expected to give all of the 72 nasty vaccines to her patients. If she'd ever woken up to the problem all of those 72 vaccines are, she'd be out of a job because they make all their money off those things. I'm so glad she didn't become a pediatrician!

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Un-silent's avatar

While it is true that it was a long road of disenfranchisement that led to this, the final deal breaker for me was the 2020-2021 deception.

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SF Med's avatar

Perfect.

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Adrianne's avatar

It seems that the goal of "modern medicine" is to destroy the immune system of every patient either through vaccines, antibiotics, steroids, radiation or chemotherapy. I quit going to the doctor about 8 years ago and I take supplements to support a strong immune system. I'm amazed at the huge change in my health. I'm 82 and most of my wrinkles have vanished, I look 60, I've thrown away my glasses which I had needed for 40 years, I don't need hearing aids, have my own teeth, no joint pains, osteoporosis, no stomach problems, no headaches, and I haven't had so much as a cold for years. I feel like a million bucks!

I believe vaccines, steroids and chemotherapy should be outlawed and public schools should be required to teach children the importance of a healthy diet, sunshine, herbal medicine, and supplements as well as which supplements to take for specific complaints, such as Sambucus for sore throats or colds, sage tea and cranberry juice for bladder infections, peroxide for cuts and scrapes, and DMSO for just about everything else!!!

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BethanyAnne's avatar

Ya, mid 60's here, and thankfully (yes, thankfully) hubs just got diagnosed with prediabetes. NOW he's paying attention to his health, and is finally motivated, so I get to be motivated too. I can finally get him to eat a healthier diet, exercise more, and stop eating that trash they call food at work. Seems like EVERYTHING is cooked in some kind of oil.

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West Coast Biochemist's avatar

Wow!!! Care to share details on how you achieved this remarkable state of good health?

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Heidi Klessig MD's avatar

Excellent post! You are absolutely right: “One of the things I find so fascinating about medical history is how often an event in the far distant past continues to ripple out into the present.”

Since 1968, we have been labeling neurologically injured people as “brain dead,” thus removing their human rights and using them as commodities: bags of spare parts. There has NEVER been any evidence that these people are dead. The newest American Academy of Neurology brain death diagnosis guideline was developed by 3 rounds of anonymous voting “because of a lack of high-quality evidence on the subject.”

People are never given any type of informed consent when they register as an organ donor, just slogans and propaganda: “Give the gift of life!” They are not told that they will still have a beating heart, that people have recovered from a brain death diagnosis, or that their consent is legally binding and cannot be challenged by their family without a court order. They are not told that many anesthesiologists do not use actual anesthesia for organ harvesting surgery, though they do use paralyzing drugs so the patient won’t move and upset the operating room staff.

I am working hard with many other doctors and lawyers to change this system. In the meantime, I recommend that everyone refuse to be a registered organ donor.

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SF Med's avatar

Good for you Heidi. An MD with a conscience. Of course you are correct. Make sure your license says no to donation, and that your loved ones are aware of your wishes. Also, never donate blood until the vampires change the donation system to include true informed consent.

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LINCOLN LOVER's avatar

This is horrific truth and I am so repulsed that more people do not understand that organ donation is taken from living people. A dead organ is of no use in organ transplants. I was awakened when i read about China using the organs of prisoners, taking them from them while they are alive, with no anesthetic either. Such profound evil I have never heard. do not ever be an organ donor.

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Nurse Outlier's avatar

Dr Klessig, I have your book that you co-authored with Christopher Bogish, “Harvesting Organs & Cherishing Life.” I have lent this book out and recommended it to nurse colleagues, friends, and family.

I took myself off the donor registry while working with transplant patients in the ICU. I also have stories I could share about organ donation and the ethical situations I experienced. “Dead” is when your heart stops beating, these patients still had a beating heart.

Organ harvesting is a money making business. The organ procurement people reminded me of vultures, hovering around waiting to get the patient to the OR.

I always questioned if we were meant to share our organs that God made specifically for each one of us, as transplant patients take anti rejection meds for life as their bodies see the transplanted organ as foreign.

"For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul knows it very well” (Psalm 139:13-14).

I used to think it was so weird when I would see the surgeon carrying their little igloo cooler with the donated organ in it that was on dry ice and also not sure what preservatives they inject into the organ to sustain it but it was always a rush of time because there is a time limit that it can be out before transplanted.

Thank you for speaking up about this, many people are just unaware of what organ harvesting really is.

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Tech girl's avatar

Covid was an eye opener for those who have ears to listen and eyes to see. It pushed me to embarked on a one year journey in a functional medicine health coach certification as I wanted a reliable “root cause” library to source from rather than the internet. What a great journey it was. No, I didn’t walk away with some profound new knowledge but I did accumulate one new trait called active listening. Listening to patients and asking thought provoking and motivating questions is a game changer. Simple routine changes in lifestyle and diet can make all the difference physically and mentally.

Really enjoy this forum and love to read all the comments. Thank you!

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DanB1973's avatar

I think that the general discussion of the post-2019 medical reset overrates the trust issue.

Trust is a follow-up phenomenon. It comes after the experience that has been positively verified, and probably many times over and in different contexts. You trust because your personal experience gained 100% benefits at 0% losses and 0% risk.

The reversal has become a popular subject. Various groups of vested interests refer to “trust” as if they had it. They make a certainty of it - while in reality there is no trust in them whatsoever.

Not a single person can trust in medicine. It is factually impossible. We go to see doctors, pay consultation visits and allow ourselves to be hospitalized because we don’t know any better. We are not given any alternative. HCWs do not care to explain our situation in lay terms and do not verify whether we are really aware of what’s going on. Informed consent is a fiction - you can not have informed consent when you, the patient, do not have the relevant knowledge.

Your medical decisions are based on a 1-minute conversation with a stranger in a position of dominance, power and absolute capacity to tweak facts in order to give you an illusion of choice. This person knows nothing about your lifestyle, needs, barriers and challenges, diet, sleep routines and mental capacity. Yet, they dare make life-changing decisions for you. Sorry, it has nothing to do with trust.

The “loss” of trust in medicine is a good sign. A false façade is coming down. The whole medical field has a chance to rebuild itself. Hopefully, it will not be limited to rebranding or reframing…

Quite recently, the medical industry came up with a phrase “evidence-based”. Wow. They have admitted that before, say, 2010, all medicine had not been based on evidence. Then, what was that medicine based on? Fantasy? Assumptions? Sponsored events? Unverified books and articles? Or… trust?... As in “trust before you jump”?

Similarly, you don’t trust in the banking, financial or political systems. They are all tools to manage and manipulate reality, often for good reasons and in good faith. They are to be used, not trusted. That’s why there are audits, congressional hearings, investigations into finances and so on. Once the medical industry implements similar mechanisms (in 70 years?) , maybe “reliability” on the modern medicine may be invoked. Trust - never. Trust is a different reality.

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Nurse Outlier's avatar

Your comment “Quite recently, the medical industry came up with a phrase “evidence-based” that made me think of a conversation I had recently with a doctor who was telling me about an evidence based, peer reviewed study. I told him you mean “paid-reviewed.” It made him think. I liked your post!

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DanB1973's avatar

Pin-point and lovely.

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Loretta's avatar

Perfect

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A Black Sheep's avatar

I walked into a hospital in Cyprus a few years ago with bleeding in the eye. I got looked at within five minutes, got some advice and medication, and went home (relieved). Cost me less than $20. How does the US medical system compare with overseas services?

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Xmen442002's avatar

I can tell you from my frequent visits to Indonesia, that it's a fraction of the cost here.

I was there one time when I thought I might have a hernia(prior physical examination in US led to believe this) and went to the regular hospital(where 98%) of all the citizens go, to consult with the dr who was also the surgeon.

He too diagnosed it as a hernia and they told me the cost was $500 and they could perform the surgery tomorrow if I did a few lab tests today..

Same surgery in the US, avg between $9000 to $12000.

It actually turned out to be a abdominal separation(diagnosed by MD close friend in Maryland that was specialist in this area.)

Indonesia has set rates charged for medical procedures and their is no fluctuation wherever you are in the county.

I had dental work done last visit and had two extractions, one tooth prepared for a crown and then a front tooth denture made and the cost was $300 total.

All of their physicians are either trained in the US or Great Britain.

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DUANE HAYES's avatar

Some of the high cost in the USA is the overhead. Gigantic liability insurance payments, high cost to rent office space and hordes of receptionists, possibly high cost to pay back student loans.

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Xmen442002's avatar

I am quite sure they have some of those very same costs associated with their practices.

But private insurance is not in the game in Indonesia as it is in the US, which leads to collusion and corruption in the industry here.

People with insurance are trapped here once they enter into this spider webb of deception.

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Loretta's avatar

Agree. I haven't had insurance for 40 yrs & everyone asks "How can you not have insurance?" I tell them I get better treatment and not scammed because they can't screw an insurance company. I also pay way less when I pay cash for treatment. BTW, I haven't been to a doctor for 30 years either.

I will never have insurance ever again.

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Xmen442002's avatar

Pay on your own in the US is not reasonable for most and that's why they get trapped by the medical mafia and insurance scam in medicine.

You have insurance, you are subject to only the treatment approved for by the AMA and Insurance regulators.

It's a evil system that feeds of the sick and suffering.

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Butterfly2510's avatar

That same visit in Us would start at approximately $200, could go upwards, probably wouldn’t help you and then you’d have to go to your eye Dr for further evaluation.

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